bread dough vs pizza dough

[Walela]

what's the difference? Which would be better for using as stuffed bread roll?

[Clove]

what's the difference? Which would be better for using as stuffed bread roll?

Walela,

Pizza dough is a basic bread dough but there are many kinds of breads that use different doughs.
With pizza dough you can make simple breads. Foccacia is a good example.
If you wanted to make a basic "white" bread, the recipe is different.
For stuffing or rolling, use the basic pizza dough, a bread dough will be to light and have to fine a crumb.

[CM]

what's the difference? Which would be better for using as stuffed bread roll?

Pizza dough is what is known as a "lean" dough, which means it has very little fat, and rather than being made with milk, or eggs, and butter, which tenderize breads, pizza dough is normally made with water and a small amount of oil. Because pizza dough is stretched, it is kneaded until the gluten is highly developed, until the dough can be stretched thinly, is elastic and won't tear so much when stretched. Bread should also have gluten development, just normally not quite as much as pizza dough.

To make a calzone, combine:

1 cup water
2 tbsp. olive oil
2 1/2 cups bread flour
1 1/2 tsp. salt
2 1/4 tsp. active dry yeast

Set bread machine on dough cycle or mix in a stand mixer, then let rise. If using a stand mixer, water should be 110-115°F. This is a good recipe for a stuffed bread roll or calzone.
It uses less flour than pizza.

[sexi_stoner_bitch]

Pizza bread sounds like it would work better anyways

[Clove]

...a stuffed bread roll...uses less flour than pizza.

CM,

Your recipe is the same as the basic pizza dough. Quantity of flour notwithstanding, I use 4 C of flour with all of the same proportions including the same amount of yeast. My recipe makes 4 10 to 12 inch pizze.
FYI - In Naples, they use the same dough for pizze and calzoni.

[CM]

Pizza bread sounds like it would work better anyways

Why so? Pizza dough has more gluten and would be more difficult to roll out than the dough recipe for calzones that I gave above, which contains less flour. Pizza is not meant to be rolled out, so the dough is much stiffer. Pizza dough is only rolled out in home kitchens, but in pizza bakeries, it's "hand stretched" (you've no doubt seen it being tossed in the air). Because it needs to be so extensible a great deal of gluten is developed and you wouldn't be able to easily roll out such a dough, even if it's rested. High gluten flour is most often used. It's difficult to mix such a dough in a smaller home mixer.

A regular white bread recipe has a ratio of 50% water/100% bread flour, while Italian bread is 65% water/100% bread flour and the ratio for pizza dough is 43% water/100% bread flour. You can see that there's more flour/less water in the pizza dough. Of course, there are many variations in recipes, and whatever works for you is best.

I like to vary my pizza dough sometimes adding flat beer or semolina flour, sometimes I add herbs to the crust. I like to use fresh yeast, too. To make a rollable dough from a pizza recipe, I would add dough relaxer or some citric acid or even a few drops of lemon juice and I would add less flour/more water to the recipe. I might even add an egg yolk if making calzone or pockets. Better yet, I'd use puff pastry instead, or something similar to a Croissant dough.

Your recipe is the same as the basic pizza dough.

Yes, it's the same because it's a lean dough, but it has about 1 to 1-1/2 cups less flour for the same water ratio.

[Clove]

Why so? Pizza dough has more gluten and would be more difficult to roll out than the dough recipe for calzones that I gave above, which contains less flour. Pizza is not meant to be rolled out, so the dough is much stiffer. Pizza dough is only rolled out in home kitchens, but in pizza bakeries, it's "hand stretched" (you've no doubt seen it being tossed in the air). Because it needs to be so extensible a great deal of gluten is developed and you wouldn't be able to easily roll out such a dough, even if it's rested. High gluten flour is most often used. It's difficult to mix such a dough in a smaller home mixer.

A regular white bread recipe has a ratio of 50% water/100% bread flour, while Italian bread is 65% water/100% bread flour and the ratio for pizza dough is 43% water/100% bread flour. You can see that there's more flour/less water in the pizza dough. Of course, there are many variations in recipes, and whatever works for you is best.

I like to vary my pizza dough sometimes adding flat beer or semolina flour, sometimes I add herbs to the crust. I like to use fresh yeast, too. To make a rollable dough from a pizza recipe, I would add dough relaxer or some citric acid or even a few drops of lemon juice and I would add less flour/more water to the recipe. I might even add an egg yolk if making calzone or pockets. Better yet, I'd use puff pastry instead, or something similar to a Croissant dough.



Yes, it's the same because it's a lean dough, but it has about 1 to 1-1/2 cups less flour for the same water ratio.

CM,

Gluten is a property of the protein content in the flour, not the water or any kneading.
Your use of less water is a function of less flour.
Liquid to flour ratios are a factor of humidity in the flour.
That can vary by the daily atmospheric conditions in the area.
That why all professional baker's flour based recipes are in weight and not volume.
Hope that clears things up a bit

BTW - True Neapolitan pizza is made with "00" flour. This is a grind that is between our All-Purpose and our Cake flour.
The Italians use the 00 flour for breads, pizze, cakes and pastries. It tends to by high in a very non-elastic type of gluten. This is why the Pizzaiole in Italy do not toss their pizze, they shape it "on the board".

[CM]

CM,

Gluten is a property of the protein content in the flour, not the water or any kneading.

Flour that is higher in protein has the potential of having more gluten developed than does a lower protein flour. Gluten is made up of the proteins in flour, but before gluten can be developed, the proteins first need to absorb water. Developed gluten is a result of autolysed/hydrated flour that has been kneaded. Gluten develops further during fermentation, so if you're making a thin pizza which isn't allowed a second rising, more of the gluten will require development in the first stages than in bread or even a thick crust pizza (which is allowed a longer rise after being formed).

Your use of less water is a function of less flour.

Not always. Pizza dough normally contains more flour, requires more kneading and has a shorter second rising time. Even thin crust pizza and thick crust pizza can use different formulae/ratios of flour to water. Bread dough usually has some kind of tenderizing ingredients, such as butter, egg, etc, and a higher water percentage than pizza.

This is not to say that you can't use bread dough for pizza and vice-versa. The question is really whether you'd want to, when it's a simple matter to adjust ratios for tailored results geared toward what you're making. Pizza is served hot so there is no concern for keeping qualities; the normal ingredients which keep bread from staling such as milk and butter are not needed for pizza. A crisp, thin crust is what is wanted for thin crust pizza. A more bread-like dough can be used for the Sicilian style square pizza with a thicker crust, but still, most of the common bread ingredients are left out of a pizza dough.

But in the end, it's up to you to determine if you're happy with the outcome.

Liquid to flour ratios are a factor of humidity in the flour.

A flour's ability to absorb water is affected by humidity in the atmosphere, storage conditions, harvest practices, age of flour, protein content, and other factors.

Bakers use weight rather than volume for both consistency in varying conditions and as a matter of convenience. It's easier to dump a 50 lb bag of flour into a mixer than it is to measure it in cups.

[Clove]

...Gluten is made up of the proteins in flour, but before gluten can be developed, the proteins first need to absorb water....

Gluten is the composite of two proteins called gliadin and glutenin. These exist, conjoined with starch, and endosperms of some grass-related grains, notably wheat, rye, and barley. Gliadin and glutenin comprise about 80% of the protein contained in wheat seed. This is a static state and has no relationship to water. Gluten is extracted from flour by washing out the starch because of the fact that starch is water-soluble while gluten is not.

...A flour's ability to absorb water is affected by...protein content, and other
factors.....

Actually the starch is more of influence on water absorption than protein (gluten)

...Bakers use weight rather than volume for both consistency in varying conditions and as a matter of convenience. It's easier to dump a 50 lb bag of flour into a mixer than it is to measure it in cups.

If it weren't for the critical weight factor of humidity in flour, the mills could just as easily labeled the bags in cups rather than weight.

[CM]

Gluten is the composite of two proteins called gliadin and glutenin. [...] Gliadin and glutenin comprise about 80% of the protein contained in wheat seed. This is a static state and has no relationship to water.

Gluten

"Protein molecules need water or liquid to hydrate, and so a bread flour with more protein will absorb more water than will an all purpose flour (or any weaker flour)." - Ciril Hitz in his excellent book Baking Artisan Pastries and Breads.

Gliadin strands bond to glutenin strands to form a more complex protein called gluten, but in order to bond they must be in the presence of water. The Structure of bread dough can also be manipulated by changing its water content. Gluten itself does not form in the absence of water.- Bread Baking, An Artisan's Perspective by Daniel T. DiMuzio.

Actually the starch is more of influence on water absorption than protein (gluten)

Starch

After flour is milled, starch components within the flour fall into two general categories - broken or damaged starch granules (7-10%) and "native starch" (unbroken starch) comprising about 90% or more of the starch granules. Native starch can only absorb about 40% of its own weight in water while the remaining 10% damaged starch granules are the starches which are able to absorb water at room temperature (during mixing).

The 90% undamaged starch granules remaining after the milling process resist water penetration because they are so compact; at room temperature they are not water absorbent. When the dough becomes heated the starch can absorb a great deal more water, especially during baking when the starch begins to gelatinize and swells in the heat of the oven. - Source: Bread Baking, An Artisan's Perspective by Daniel T. DiMuzio.